My sweet spot at this time is about $100 for a mid, with a stretch to $160 or so for exceptional driver(s). Not comfortable with the $300 range... As a merchant you always need to understand your customer's preferences.
Actually, I am hoping that PE brings back the Esoteric 140 with some tweaks.
SPL is much too low for my liking and why you would need a 3'' voice coil in a 5'' driver is beyond my comprehension. Rival has a 1.5'' which I thought is plenty.
Yeah, for me personally it would be useful only if you cross it above typical baffle step or set it on a desk 18" from your face. Good pedigree, otherwise.
I like the midrange clarity and the sheer amount of abuse it can take SPL wise without bottoming out or distorting.
How did you deal with the 5 db drop at 1 k?
I used it with a tweeter that could cross in the general vicinity of 1-1.5k. Something like a .75mH coil and handing off to a TB tweeter. If you want I can try and dig out specifics along with the PCD screenshots.
As far as I know - and of course I am not "in the loop" on these things - the Esoteric 140 has been re-released with some slight changes. On sale for $100 right now, too.
You guys always know more than I do (speak chat at 3am, anyone?) - but my impression was that the Eso line was having market difficulties, and the current sale was not a "reintroduction" sale but rather a "clear out inventory for the next version". But maybe the PE energy is all going into the "ultra-deluxe" line.
When I get close to finalizing on a high end build, I'll likely order from PE and Meniscus and listen to the choices side by side and send back the loser(s). If the Rival 150 is moderately priced, I'm likely to spring for a pair just for grins.
But Chahly - Stahkist don't want speakers that look good, Stahkist wants speakers that sound good!
I really like the older underhung Dynavox 5.25" LW5004 with the steel-bolt/aluminum-slab assembly. That thing does things it's just not supposed to do, and does it well. The newer models are overhung, and not quite the same thing. These were $65/ea when I bought them.
I like my Revelator 15W/8530K00, which are more like a 6". Under larger excursions, they move differently than most other drivers, call it antisinusoidal if you will, and do it really cleanly. I got the pair for a steal at $148, or I wouldn't have them at all. That said- I think these of this list will likely be the pair that would move on. I like the other 2 pair more.
I also really like the TB W4-1798S. Once I tamed the cone's energy storage blemish, these presented a very open, detailed, and analytically resolving image, while not being fatiguing. These were about $130/each when PE sold them.
SB Satori that Dan and Kerry used in the little monitors were really nice as well. Almost an organic sound, and easy and neutral on the ears.
HiVi M5- some of the best metal midrange I've come across, and I don't care how cheap it is. Decent bass extension too.
HiVi F5- ditto above^^^. Might need a touch of grace in the xover, but worth it.
Eton Hex 5" that Todd England used a few years ago. That was stunning and clear.
Audax Aerogel HM130, wonderful midrange.
Seas U16- bass with aplomb, easy and neutral mids without really any breakup. Just a fantastic driver.
Aurum Cantus AC130F1- glossy performance, Continuum used. Great driver!
Esoteric ES140- This driver does a lot right, despite the low sensitivity.
TB W5-1138- who doesn't love this little bass gremlin!
Peerless 830991- a Low HD driver at a low price, that sounds remarkably good, and bests HD performance of many more costly drivers.
These are just a few after thinking on it for a bit, and they are not necessarily for the same reasons.
Thanks Ben. With all those great choices, it makes me think that it is not worth ordering 5'ers from Rival.I would only be able to get their Kevlar ones. I must admit, I'm an Eton guy. I absolutely love the sound of their drivers. That HEX cone is really something special.
Leon - if the Rival Kevlar 5 inch can compete with the Scan Speak 13 and the SB for less than $60 or so it should sell well, but it's your money and risk
But Chahly - Stahkist don't want speakers that look good, Stahkist wants speakers that sound good!
I know that the Rival 5.5'' paper will definitely compete with Scan but that one in unavailable to me so far. The Kevlar drivers are being updated. I don't know if that means a higher price or not. If I can't release a 5.5'' for $60-$65, I won't bother. Rival is dropping allot of their multi-coated paper drivers. Ronnie told me that many of the coatings are just too complicated, slows production and interferes with consistency. That's ok with me because I find them confusing. (Too many choices) I'm going to try to get some of their NLA drivers for DIY. Hopefully, I can get them at a good price and pass the savings on to builders. I thought the CP was a good price ($45) for a reasonable driver.
Wolf - You must pick one, only one can be best! Which is best ultimate ?
If the kevlar 5" is a highish sensitivity, lowish xmax design for a dedicated high performance midrange, I think many would be interested in it. The world needs more dedicated midranges, but I see the market for midwoofers vs midranges so I understand why there are fewer options.
I agree that there's not enough 5'' mids in the market. I think the issue arises from the lack of multi-way designs out there. You also have the cost and complexity of multi-way designs. Mid woofers out sell mids by a long shot.
I really like the older underhung Dynavox 5.25" LW5004 with the steel-bolt/aluminum-slab assembly. That thing does things it's just not supposed to do, and does it well. The newer models are overhung, and not quite the same thing. These were $65/ea when I bought them.
I like my Revelator 15W/8530K00, which are more like a 6". Under larger excursions, they move differently than most other drivers, call it antisinusoidal if you will, and do it really cleanly. I got the pair for a steal at $148, or I wouldn't have them at all. That said- I think these of this list will likely be the pair that would move on. I like the other 2 pair more.
I also really like the TB W4-1798S. Once I tamed the cone's energy storage blemish, these presented a very open, detailed, and analytically resolving image, while not being fatiguing. These were about $130/each when PE sold them.
SB Satori that Dan and Kerry used in the little monitors were really nice as well. Almost an organic sound, and easy and neutral on the ears.
HiVi M5- some of the best metal midrange I've come across, and I don't care how cheap it is. Decent bass extension too.
HiVi F5- ditto above^^^. Might need a touch of grace in the xover, but worth it.
Eton Hex 5" that Todd England used a few years ago. That was stunning and clear.
Audax Aerogel HM130, wonderful midrange.
Seas U16- bass with aplomb, easy and neutral mids without really any breakup. Just a fantastic driver.
Aurum Cantus AC130F1- glossy performance, Continuum used. Great driver!
Esoteric ES140- This driver does a lot right, despite the low sensitivity.
TB W5-1138- who doesn't love this little bass gremlin!
Peerless 830991- a Low HD driver at a low price, that sounds remarkably good, and bests HD performance of many more costly drivers.
These are just a few after thinking on it for a bit, and they are not necessarily for the same reasons.
(Revelator 15W/8530K00) So you like the low fs rather than a higher sensitivity?
Yeh if im paying 200 for tweeters and 400 for midwoofers im leaning toward a 2 way lol. Who knows what that woofer would cost. I do like that SS rev and the satori Dan P used in his design at grand rapids that kit was so good sounding.
Comments
When I get close to finalizing on a high end build, I'll likely order from PE and Meniscus and listen to the choices side by side and send back the loser(s). If the Rival 150 is moderately priced, I'm likely to spring for a pair just for grins.
I've been thinking about this query...
I really like the older underhung Dynavox 5.25" LW5004 with the steel-bolt/aluminum-slab assembly. That thing does things it's just not supposed to do, and does it well. The newer models are overhung, and not quite the same thing. These were $65/ea when I bought them.
I like my Revelator 15W/8530K00, which are more like a 6". Under larger excursions, they move differently than most other drivers, call it antisinusoidal if you will, and do it really cleanly. I got the pair for a steal at $148, or I wouldn't have them at all. That said- I think these of this list will likely be the pair that would move on. I like the other 2 pair more.
I also really like the TB W4-1798S. Once I tamed the cone's energy storage blemish, these presented a very open, detailed, and analytically resolving image, while not being fatiguing. These were about $130/each when PE sold them.
SB Satori that Dan and Kerry used in the little monitors were really nice as well. Almost an organic sound, and easy and neutral on the ears.
HiVi M5- some of the best metal midrange I've come across, and I don't care how cheap it is. Decent bass extension too.
HiVi F5- ditto above^^^. Might need a touch of grace in the xover, but worth it.
Eton Hex 5" that Todd England used a few years ago. That was stunning and clear.
Audax Aerogel HM130, wonderful midrange.
Seas U16- bass with aplomb, easy and neutral mids without really any breakup. Just a fantastic driver.
Aurum Cantus AC130F1- glossy performance, Continuum used. Great driver!
Esoteric ES140- This driver does a lot right, despite the low sensitivity.
TB W5-1138- who doesn't love this little bass gremlin!
Peerless 830991- a Low HD driver at a low price, that sounds remarkably good, and bests HD performance of many more costly drivers.
These are just a few after thinking on it for a bit, and they are not necessarily for the same reasons.
InDIYana Event Website
Wolfy's Photobucket
With all those great choices, it makes me think that it is not worth ordering 5'ers from Rival.I would only be able to get their Kevlar ones.
I must admit, I'm an Eton guy. I absolutely love the sound of their drivers. That HEX cone is really something special.
Leon- Don't stop on account of what I said. There is likely a gen in the Rival lineup for a midrange.
dcibel- depends on the application and the adjacent driver.
Don- you're welcome!
InDIYana Event Website
Wolfy's Photobucket
Rival is dropping allot of their multi-coated paper drivers. Ronnie told me that many of the coatings are just too complicated, slows production and interferes with consistency. That's ok with me because I find them confusing. (Too many choices)
I'm going to try to get some of their NLA drivers for DIY. Hopefully, I can get them at a good price and pass the savings on to builders. I thought the CP was a good price ($45) for a reasonable driver.
If the kevlar 5" is a highish sensitivity, lowish xmax design for a dedicated high performance midrange, I think many would be interested in it. The world needs more dedicated midranges, but I see the market for midwoofers vs midranges so I understand why there are fewer options.
InDIYana Event Website
Wolfy's Photobucket
So you like the low fs rather than a higher sensitivity?
InDIYana Event Website
Wolfy's Photobucket