Select a Style

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Who's Online (1)

Please review the site Rules, Terms of Service, and Privacy Policy at your convenience. Rules, TOS, Privacy
Get familiar with the reaction system: Introducing the Reaction System

XSIM

What am I missing here guys? I imported FRD and ZMA files from graph tracer . They seem to load correctly. Im just wanting to try different values on a single woofer . When I change or "tune" the values I would expect to see the frequency response move with it , the impedence graph changes some but not the FR of the driver? I checked out the youtube vid Ryan posted but I must be missing something. I dont think I need a tweeter in the mix but maybe I do ?  

TIA
Nick

«1

Comments

  • You've got a line driven through that inductor shorting it out.
    jr@macNicholas_23Turn2
    What?
  • Well , hell . Thank you for the quick response , that did it. Much appreciated dB
    dcibel
  • Sorry to bother again guys , but where can you view the phase of the drivers as you go about the design process?
  • Go to the FR window, pull up the "Curves" menu, and open the woofer curve.
    There is a checkbox there for "show phase".  There is a similar checkbox for the "System" curve.
    Nicholas_23
  • Thanks for all the info gents , Ill poke around some more with this when i get home tonight . 
  • Thanks again guys , would anyone want to interpret the phase on this two way? Call me out on anything that looks off. 
  • S2 looks like the tweeter and the phase doesn't look right. I would expect it to wrap at the knee.  Did you extract min phase?
     John H, thanks to JP I did get that email
  • I'd say they were about 105-110* off at the crossover point, what's it look like with reversed phase?
    deadhorse - leviathan - harbinger - shockwave (wip)
  • I guess you could get this phase shape with a large offset added to the tweeter
     John H, thanks to JP I did get that email
  • How was phase obtained? It appears far too smooth considering the driver response, almost like the driver files contain no phase information and you are only looking at the phase of the electrical filter. Also, where the phase "wraps" is unimportant, what is important is that your driver phase doesn't line up at the crossover point, you have ~75 degrees between drivers. How I would look at this is that the speaker forward axis is not the listening axis (straight ahead), if you go off-axis where the phase does line up (the speaker forward axis), you will now have a peak at the crossover frequency. Unfortunately, limits of Xsim prevent this sort of visual analysis. 
    What?
  • Thanks for the reply guys , I thought the phase on the tweeter looked off as well which is what promted the post. Since my upgraded version of SE does not want to play nice on my PC ,Ive decided to Let Bohden keep the money and move on , hence XSIM ans REW. Anyways .... sorry kind of went off the road there. All FRD and ZMA measurements were pull from the manufacturer specs and traced in . None of these measurements are measured in/on a baffle. Im just, at this point , trying to get my feet wet with XSIM and see what it can do . I really like it so far! 
  • Ok, so if you've traced the frequency response, the standard process for this would be to take the manufacturer infinite baffle response, apply your baffle diffraction, apply HBT (tails), then extract minimum phase to get data accurate enough for crossover simulation use.

    If it's just a traced frequency response, then you have missed a few steps, the results obtained in Xsim won't be anywhere close to reality since the data input doesn't include the baffle step or any phase data. That being said, Xsim is a super simple program, especially compared to SE, so it looks like you've got a handle on it.

    As far as going through the steps above, for free solutions there's a few options out there, if you like spreadsheets Jeff B has put together a FRD response blender spreadsheet which has a simple diffraction simulator built in, so you can load your traced FRD, apply baffle step, tail the response and extract minimum phase all in one sheet.
    Nicholas_23
    What?
  • No, Charlie Laub made  the Blender. Jeff's program is called Response Modeler.
  • My spreadsheet says they both made it, but that's beside the point.
    What?
  • The Blender is more difficult to add the baffle to FRDs as you can only add the baffle diffraction into the data loaded in the LF data tab. 

    It's easier to add the baffle in Response Modeler to the factory FRD.   Adjust the tails in the Blender by only loading the FRD saved from RM into the HF tab.

    Unfortunately it's still a two spreadsheet process.
    Nicholas_23
     John H, thanks to JP I did get that email
  • edited January 24
    John, you can use the FRD blender, and skip the HF tab entirely since we are not actually using the sheet for blending.

    One spreadsheet process using FRD Blender, step-by-step
    1. Goto low frequency tab and load traced FRD
    2. Goto diffraction tab and mess with the diffraction thingy, then press "use diffraction model"
    3. Goto control tab, you should see your response here now with the diffraction included. Go ahead and adjust the tails as needed to make a clean low and high end response.
    4. Extract minimum phase.
    5. Save the file

    Easy peasy.



    Nicholas_23
    What?
  • The main problem I have with the Blender, is that you can't have other Excel sheets open when you extract phase with it. Since I have everything open when I'm doing a sim, it's a pain to have to close all but the Blender, do that one step, and then open them all back up again. This is why I never moved from using RM for a majority of my baffle/diff/phase routines.
  • Did you get a high frequency tail to adjust? dcibel said:
    John, you can use the FRD blender, and skip the HF tab entirely since we are not actually using the sheet for blending.

    One spreadsheet process using FRD Blender, step-by-step
    1. Goto low frequency tab and load traced FRD
    2. Goto diffraction tab and mess with the diffraction thingy, then press "use diffraction model"
    3. Goto control tab, you should see your response here now with the diffraction included. Go ahead and adjust the tails as needed to make a clean low and high end response.



     John H, thanks to JP I did get that email
  • Tails are applied to the "combined response", in my screenshot you can see the high frequency tail starts at 9kHz.
    What?
  • The high frequency tail does not function for me unless I load data into the HF tab
     John H, thanks to JP I did get that email
Sign In or Register to comment.