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Crystalac
Has anyone ever used Crystalac wood grain filler? I was talking to a couple of finishing experts at Dakota and they recommended this brand of filler to achieve a nice, smooth finish on my Dual Exhaust speakers.
http://www.crystalac.info/clear-wood-grain-filler.html
I bought a quart and built a test box to try it out. Will post my results as I go along. I watched the youtube video linked above, so now I am fully qualified to proceed. Any tips or recommendations before I start?
Comments
Wear disposable gloves. I have used it for several years. Here's my process. I stain and then seal with waterborne or Zinsser Seal Coat shellac. Then liberally apply the grain filler with a cloth rubbing it in to the grain. Move quickly because it does dry rapidly. I then you plastic bondo applicators to squeegee the excess off. Let dry and lightly sand. Repeat the procedure until the surface is smooth.
This is not hole filler, just grain filler. Depending on your top coat selection, apply another coat of shellac. Target Coatings has a waterborne shellac that eliminates the crazing issue with seal coat but still provides the grain pop and barrier coating.
Let it dry over night and apply your top coat.
HTH
Jim
Thanks for the info, Jim. My current plan is to sand down to a smooth 220 finish, apply my stain to the raw wood, and then go directly to the Crystalac step without sealing with shellac. After I get done with multiple Crystalac coats and sanding operations, I plan to apply several top coats of oil based polyurethane.
Does it sound like I am going in the wrong direction? I have no experience with the use of Shellac.
FWIW, the only real reason for shellac is to pop the grain and give the finish an amber look plus its a great barrier coat that anything will stick to and not penetrate. Apply two light coats of Crystalac, lightly sand with 400 - 600 to knock off the nubs then apply two more regular coats. If the finish is milky in appearance when wet, its on too heavy. Lighten up just a bit. Depending on how it looks, I may or may not sand again or apply another coat. If its super smooth at four coats, I usually stop. Remember to wait 10-15 minutes for the finish to flow before making a decision. It looks like hell at first.
Just a thought, the Crystalac is at least as durable as the poly and I wouldn't recommend an oil finish over waterborne until the Crystalac has cured which is a minimum of three full days. I'm not sure what you'll gain with the poly.
My $0.02 worth...
Jim
I always do 2 coats of grain filler, sometimes 3. I usually burn though the sealer in a few spot so I spot stain if needed.
I prefer Sealcoat over Shellac as it has a longer shelf life. I just got burned by some soft/ not drying Shellac last week. It must have been on the store shelf for a while.
If you are using an oil based sealer stain (aka Minwax)you could skip the sealcoat step.
Not that you asked but imho, unless you are planing on rubbing out the poly a "clear" grain filler is a lot of work for little benefit.
I'm glad you brought that up John. Wax and waterborne do not mix!
Jim
I forgot what the speakers sounded like and had to fire them up to determine if the extra work was worth it
Ok, thanks for all the great tips! Let me ask a few questions to see if I am understanding your recommendations. I stained one side of my test box with Varathane "summer oak" stain from Mendards. Then, I masked off the other side into 2 sections and stained one section with Varathane "golden oak" stain from Mendards. The final section will remain with no stain, as I want to see how the grain comes out with no stain at all.
I think these Varathane stains are oil based types, because, when drying, they smell like mineral spirits gassing off. Even after 24 hrs, I can still smell the stain up close, but the mineral spirits smell is now gone.
John, when you use 2 coats of Sealcoat before the Crystalac, is this the brand that you are using? I think I need to head back to Mendards to pick up a can. So, I want to use this prior to CL because it will seal the wood without raising the grain?
http://www.rustoleum.com/en/product-catalog/consumer-brands/zinsser/interior-wood-finishes/sealcoat-universal-sanding-sealer
Sorry for all the questions. As you can see, I have very little experience in this area.
Your link shows the correct product.
For the oil based poly I like to use a 3 x 4 Sureline paint pad and apply light coats, almost rubbing it in. With the Sureline paint pads be sure to wash and dry them before using. They can shed little fibers.
After the poly drys I lightly block sand (knock of the nubs) with 400 and recoat. A 3M fine hand sanding pad also works well
Thanks John. I found a rattle can of Zinsser Shellac Sealer at Menards, which is pretty much the same as the stuff in the quart can above. Will use it to seal the entire test box before applying the 1st coat of Crystalac. The instructions on the can say it can be used as a sealer for stain of any kind.
I picked up a couple of the 3M fine hand sanding pads that you mention above, so as soon as the stain is completely dry (72 hrs+), I'll give the test box a very light coat of sealer, let it dry, and then very lightly buff off the nibs with the 3M pad. Will try to be very careful not to sand through to the stain.
I've sprayed water based poly with my HF gun, but that gave more of a orange peal finish with what I was using.
Jim's sprayed the Crystalac water based poly(?) and could give you more pointers than me.
IMO solvent based Lacquer if probably the easiest to spray. I like Behlen Qualalacq lacquer or Lenmar from Benjamin Moore. I usually thin with lacquer thinner from HD or Lowes and use a lacquer retarder additive for hot days.
The 2 part Lacquers with a hardener are on my list to try. Sumitt's 2k and General Finishes pre-cat Lacquer (water based) look promising.
PS: Don't spray the Deft brushing lacquer as it has additives for brushing that keep the lacquer soft.
Having a compressor that will deliver enough CFM at 40 PSI and gun setup are probably the most import things to consider when investing in equipment. The 904 HE sprays really well at 18-25 PSI at the gun regulator which means very low overspray.
Cap/nozzle sizes from 1.3 - 1.5 will work fine for waterborne or solvent. I prefer 1.4 which does everything really well. Also, understanding when and how much to thin the paint/clear is important.
Waterborne has super low VOC so there's virtually no smell. I created a temp spray booth in my basement workshop that is made out of PCV pipe, shower curtains and cheap tarps to block over spray. I get a $2 plastic drop cloth for the floor and I'm good to go. It takes me about 1-2 hours to setup, less to tear it down.
The 3 waterborne finishes that are very popular with wood workers are Target Coatings, General Finishes and Crystalac. There are many other but these are the 3 that I find to fit my needs the best. Crystalac is my favorite. Its ready to spray right out of the jug, drys very quickly and can be recoated in about 45 minutes. It levels really well and fully cures in 72 hours if you want to polish it. It also doesn't require sanding between coats except to knock down nubs or a run if it happens. It also works better with light coats than heavier coats so its easier for amateurs like me.
BTW, Crystalac is an acrylic urethane rather than a poly as I understand it. It drys super hard and is very durable. they also have a product called Polyoxe which is designed for floors and bar tops that I've also used and like. They are not interchangeable during the spray process.
HTH
Jim
I have very small handheld airless sprayer that can do thick paints and fine finish but not recommended for Hot Solvent. So wasn't very sure what all are hot solvent.
But if Crystalac is waterborne, it should be fine.
I don't know what a hot solvent is either. I know that Lacquer is highly flammable and you have to be extremely careful with that stuff. That is why I don't use it. And it stinks badly too. I personally prefer oil based paints that can be thinned with mineral spirits. Or better yet, go all waterborne. But I have never been able to get waterborne to work properly. But this is probably more a matter of my inexperience than anything else.
Test project update:
I set my stained test box outside and gave it two light coats of rattle can shellac. As I sprayed, the grain raised slightly on the non-stained section, but remained completely flat on the stained portions. After roughly 6 hours of drying, the stained portions were still very smooth with just a few very small nibs here and there. The unstained portion was noticeably rougher, with slightly raised grain, especially on the hardwood corner molding.
I think the only reason I like oil finish is my lack of experience with a waterborne system that actually works. You have convinced me that I need to replace my sprayer and try waterborne again.
If you go water based using all General Finishes may be the easiest.
Note that water based paints require a different spray gun than water based clears.
John
After the sealer dried 24 hrs, I lightly sanded the nibs off with a 3M finishing pad and tacked it off.
Then:
I'll have to disagree with you on this comment. If you're shooting waterborne or solvent, clear or base coat (paint) they all can be shot with one gun as long as you clean it thoroughly when you switch materials. The key is to get the paint thinned to the correct viscosity. Check out Ford #4 cups at Amazon and thin the material to correspond to your guns requirements. My Warwick with a 1.4 nozzle set shoots material best with around 20 seconds through the Ford #4 cup but 25 seconds will work fine with minor adjustments of the gun. Anything above that and it should be thinned.
I've not used General Finishes because it requires sanding between all coats and I'm lazy.
Any gun that you shoot waterborne material from any manufacture should have stainless steel fluid passages or will corrode internally eventually. Other than that, waterborne can be shot from any gun with the correct tip size. HVLP or LVLP gravity feed are your best choices.
Bill: Latex is a whole different conversation! Rarely is it shot with an automotive style paint gun.
Jim
So, if I sound "know it all" I'm really not. I'm just trying to share some of the knowledge that I've gained through experience over the last decade shooting waterbourne.
Jim
Jim
On the subject of guns, there are some paints that limit the about of thinning that can be done, when that happens you need to move to a larger tip.
My two main guns are 1.4 and 1.8 mm tips (1.8 is broken new one on order). I've also got a 2.0 gun that I've sprayed some thick house paints (and the Benjamin Moore (BM) Advance last week). The Titan OBs had purple Pittsburg latex paint on them ($9 per gallon). The BM Advance and Pittsburg was more like 100 seconds in a #4 cup.
I've shot a bunch of two part auto paint many years ago. You can use it on speakers, etc. The only down side is that it's more expensive than the two part furniture paint and it has limited colors and sheen. Brown semi-gloss auto paint is like non-existent.
The two part paint and hardeners have real health hazards so it's best to use a organic vapor respirator and an appropriate area. The 2 part paints are called 2K or conversion varnishes.
Somewhat safer are the pre-catalyzed paints where smaller amounts of hardeners are premixed in the paint you buy. Some water based paint come pre-catalyzed.
There are good books out there, I like Flexner and Dresdner